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So Intuit sends me this letter.... and boy do I have questions / comments.

So I got a letter from Intuit saying that my 2004 version of Quicken was being end-of-lifed, and as a result, all financial institutions from which I can now download data will no longer function with this version in April.I cannot begin to express my displeasure and disbelief at such an irresponsible corporate policy. Here you have a product that after just THREE YEARS has reached it's end of life? But you know, that's fine... discontinue support, discontinue updates to the product. I have no problem with that. But what Intuit is doing, in addition to those things, is removing a FEATURE upon which my original decision to purchase this product was predicated. There is no valid reason, other than the usual bait and switch corporate mentality, for them to discontinue this. I cannot for the life of me imagine why a) there is no reasonable competition yet and b) noone has filed a class-action suit against Intuit for their insidious behavior in this regard.Now, from what I've read, it actually gets worse if I DO decide to update my version to continue download support.Currently, one of the financial institutions which which I do business does not support updates via Quicken or Money in their investment accounts. Thus, I wrote a program which translates data I download from their site into a QIF file and I import that. It saves me many hours of typing in repetitive data such as dividend income events.So, while I'm being forced to upgrade to a new version of Quicken, I also understand that the QIF import method that I use will no longer work. I could be wrong, but I have heard that QIF importing works for cash accounts, but nothing I have read suggests it will work for investment accounts in a version of Quicken &gt_= 2005. Can anyone confirm this?Furthermore, it is my understanding that I cannot just alter my program to output a QFX or OFX (instead of QIF) file as Quicken versions &gt_= 2005 do not allow import of those files into Quicken accounts. Am I correct in this? I would love to hear otherwise.Thus, as it is... a fully functioning product that I paid for based on its marketed features is having those same features REMOVED in order to force my upgrade path. But adding insult to injury, features available in the 2004 version I use now are already removed from subsequent versions of the software. This puts me in the predicament of having to choose which feature I desire the most... QIF importing or downloading statements.I have been in business many years, in many areas. The one business rule I have learned is that if you help people, the money will come. Intuit appears to be taking the opposite tack and is more concerned with cajoling every last nickel from their current (and in all likelihood, soon to be former) clients.Sorry for the rant. If anyone can confirm or refute any of this, I'm all ears. Thanks.
    Boy, am I ever with you! I think Intuit should get rid of the silly idea that they are in business to make money.  Fire the Board of Directors, tell the stockholders to go to, take the company private and turn it into a Not For Profit Good Will Organization whose primary goal in life will be to serve people like you. Get over it and open up the wallet.  Three years of using Premium 2007 H&B is going to cost you $89.99 about 8.2 cents a day at retail.  Right now you can buy it from Quicken for $59.99 about 5.5 cents a day.
      Intuit has been sunsetting the 3-year old version of Quicken for quite a few years now ... this isn't, by any means, a new policy.And before you threaten to switch to brand-M, their sunset policy is for 2-year old versions.db
        Wow..youve inspired me to sue the people who made 8 track tapes...cause i have a player from back when and now i cant find up to date tapes!
          > I wonder if Intuit publishes a list of features that> will stop working in Quicken 2007 in 3 years.Actually, I feel Intuit has gotten much more proactive about  this -- now they are publishing a list of features that will stop working upon install of Q2007._-)--Sorry if I didn't reply to you or posted information that was nominally identical to yours_ if that's the case, I likely have you on Ignore for various reasons.
            > ?This is the equivalent of coming over to my house> and wrecking my car so I'll be forced to buy a new> one?> > That analogue fits,

            No, that analogy does not fit at all.  The program is not 'wrecked'.  It still runs and performs all the same calculations, provides all the same information to the user, stores all the same data, manages all the same personal finance.  Perhaps (and it's a big perhaps), you could argue that the fuel (data) being supplied to the engine of the car is being withheld, but that is not right either.  It's just a case that now you need to supply the fuel yourself.  Intuit's been willing to supply it for the last 3+ years but their willingness to do so is limited and identified as such up-front.

            --Tod --- Know the calculations before drawing conclusions.
              > I agree with sysvr4.  As a member of a Credit Union I> am stuck ... caught between my financial institution> being fiscally responsible to its members and> Quickens draconian behavior.

              What about Intuit stockholders?  Are they simply chopped liver or do they have the right to expect Intuit to be financially responsible?

              My Credit Union is only> willing to pay for users of this download service> .....  not the Quicken Fee  based on Credit Union> assets or its total membership. Normally,  I would> upgraded  the applications I use ... thus, Quicken> has not benefited from my purchasing at least 3> upgrades. Only because of their lack of support for> QIF .I'm sure this will weigh heavily in any future decisions regarding sunset policy changes.  > Now if I am forced to find an alternative to Quicken> I will do just that ... But I certainly not reward> the company that has created this issue for me ... I> probably will throw Turbo Tax over the wall also ...> too bad, I have been using these products seemly> forever. I have read about converter tools .. Anyone> know if they work on Money?

              Don't let the door hit you in the butt.  I'm sure they have something but you better work fast, Microsoft sunsets Money after only two years.
                > I completely agree with you, Sysvr4.> > The pointless rantings of 'dbAnalyst', 'iiimaf', and> 'yarbie1000' notwithstanding: it is one thing to> discontinue support for older products, but to> time-bomb the existing features (Internet download)> that you paid for seems like fraud to me.  I'm no> lawyer, but that's how I see it.  If somebody wants> to start a class-action lawsuit against Intuit, I'll> sign the petition.> > I really don't mind paying Intuit for their product,> but I don't like this business model: rather than> enticing users to upgrade based on compelling new> features, they are simply punishing users and FORCING> them to upgrade by removing the features that already> exist.  Talk about giving the 'one finger salute' to> loyal customers.> > Upgrading to new software is always a pain, and I> would prefer to just keep my existing version of> Quicken and pay a yearly download subscription fee --> maybe $10/year -- for the Internet features.  Intuit> would make money and I don't get jerked-around.

                Of course you would then complain that the tax functions in Quicken were out of date and useless or that revised treatment of IRA's wasn't properly handled.  People like you will always see the dark side of things and will always see the glass half full.

                > > However, because they are (again) forcing me to> upgrade, I really do have to examine other options.

                Intuit isn't forcing you to upgrade.  You have every right to take your money elsewhere.

                 > What I <i>really</i> want is a Quicken-like program> m that works on Linux -- now that would be a> COMPELLING feature of the type to which I was> referring, which would entice me to upgrade.

                And I suppose you would be outraged if they wanted you to pay for it?

                > However, for reasons that defy my comprehension,> , Intuit has repeatedly resisted all calls to port> Quicken to the Linux platform -- a platform on which> they would have virtually no competition (do you> think Microsoft is going to release a Linux version> of Money?).  Heck, they are already 90% there with> the Mac OS X version of Quicken, but Intuit refuses> to release a Linux version!  What incompetent yutz is> calling the shots at Intuit?  I'm glad I'm not a> stockholder.

                Probably someone with a better head for marketing than yours. 
                  Ok, so let's say I agree that my Quicken 2004 is old and I'm ready to upgrade. But I don't want to upgrade to a soon-to-be-obsolescent-also version. Instead of getting in on the end of Quicken 2007, I'd much rather spend the money on the obvious-next-release: Quicken 2008 for Mac.Anyone have an idea when that might be out so I could buy 1 upgrade instead of 2?
                    You are new to the Quicken Forum and a Mac user so I will be very polite and suggest that you will have better luck asking this question on the Mac side of the Forum.
                      > > ?This is the equivalent of coming over to my house> > and wrecking my car so I'll be forced to buy a new> > one?> > > > That analogue fits, > > No, that analogy does not fit at all.  The program is> not 'wrecked'.  It still runs a performs all the same> calculations, provides all the same information to> the user, stores all the same data, manages all the> same personal finance.  Perhaps (and it's a big> perhaps), you could argue that the fuel (data) being> supplied to the engine of the car is being withheld,> but that is not right either.  It's just a case that> now you need to supply the fuel yourself.  Intuit's> been willing to supply it for the last 3+ years but> their willingness to do so is limited and identified> as such up-front.> > --> Tod --- Know the calculations before drawing> conclusions.Spin it anyway you wish - my bottom line does not change:I purchased Quicken 2007 in Jan then found out my monthly time spending in the program increases significantly. I had to manually add transaction to my 401(k) bye-monthly, that?s two transactions per mutual fund (10) ? 40 total transactions pre-month. (Downgraded back to Quicken2004)My time is most important I have no problem buying the upgrade if the time using is was the same or less. I have asked Quicken the following question:Why would/should I continue to be a customer? I'm a satisfied Quicken2004 customer, and they're asking me to be unsatisfied Quicken 2007 customer.
                        Explore other financial software packages then. Use a Google search.  There ARE other alternatives to Quicken that allow you to import .qif and .ofx file types.Maybe those products will suit your needs better.  Quicken's business model is obviously not going to change.  Continually harping about it doesn't do you any good and may be bad for your health.The added time to manually add transactions to Quicken (gosh, what did we do BEFORE downloads?) may be compensated by using a competitive product.Think about it!
                          > Explore other financial software packages then. Good advice!I have done exactly that.  My issue is now solved by moving all of my old data to Gnucash.  It's free, open source, supports OFX transaction downloads, and QIF/OFX importing.Surprisingly though, I find the best feature is that it is a double-entry accounting system.  You would be amazed at the errors I found that Quicken's single-entry system had either introduced or (at least) enabled me to make.I will shortly be making a DMG install file for Mac users to easily install it because, unfortunately, it's not altogether easy to do so unless you know a lot about computers.  For those of you included to try anyway:http://www.gnucash.org/Best of luck to all of you.--Edited by Sysvr4 at 02/03/2007 2:55 PM
                            Thanks for the tips gmalis1 you obviously have a lot of time on your hands ? and yes before DOWNLOAD most people who kept good records filled out the check register and manually reconcile accounts.   You just don?t get it ? it?s not about the money, they could charge me $79 a year for extended life and that would have been OK.  I switch from MS Money in 1996 to Quicken and have been happy with the product and it?s improvements over those years. Sysvr4 - I did look into GNUCash, and was pleased to see there is a package for Ubuntu It?s too bad Intuit does not offer an API interface for Quicken like they do for QuickBooks (this would not make it open source as some have suggested), it could be limited and still all power users to create modular to perform a specific function that the product lacks -  obviously for a charge.
                              Discontinuing .qif import has been effective since the Quicken 2005 version.Now, 3 years later, we are still rehashing the same old, same old..."I can't download .qif files, Intuit is extorting money from my FI, my FI can't afford the fees Intuit is charging, I liked my old version, etc, etc, etc."Are we ever going to be able to move past this issue?  Maybe when Quicken 2005 is retired in 2008, this issue will finally become a non-issue.And I do get it, smcquiggan!  You get it too!  Quicken changed their business model so they can charge FI's for the right to download into their (Intuit's) software.  No one held a gun to their head for the FI's to do so.  As a matter of fact, your FI decided not to do it.  That is YOUR FI's business model.Your choices are simple:1 Stick with your FI and change software.2 Change FI's.You are not going to change Intuit's mind on this issue.  I don't defend Intuit's decision to eliminate .qif support...I am just stating their position.If you changed from MS Money to Quicken, you might have to change from Quicken to another software that meets your needs.  They ARE available and will take some work, but I am confident you will get it to work.So, please, all you Q2004 and earlier users...give it up already.  You can't download .qif after the next few months (aside from downloading to a dummy cash account).If you are all dissatisfied with Quicken and it's policies, show them the same way you would with any other product...don't purchase it and move on to something comparable.
                                I sent Quicken the following message:I just received notice that web download for Quicken 2004 will no longer be supported. First, there is no reason to force me to upgrade. The $20 discount is a joke. Second, the primary reason I have not upgraded in the past is that you TOOK THE IMPORT/EXPORT CAPABILITY AWAY!!! There was no reason for that either!!! Why was this feature taken away!!! If data is damaged, sometimes that is the only way to get it back! Duh! Export to a flat file, find the problem and fix it, then import back into Quicken. I have needed that on a couple of occasions in the MANY years that I have used Quicken.Here is the reply I received: In this case I would like to tell you that Export Import feature is available in Quicken, you can export the data from damaged file to new file. This features is not discontinued.I am trying to get the straight scoop on whether I can export damaged files to a flat file, fix them manually and re-import them into Quicken 2007.  It sounds to me from Sysvr4 that I CAN'T yet I hear Quicken support saying yes you can.WHO KNOWS THE TRUTH!!!???
                                  > I sent Quicken the following message:> I just received notice that web download for Quicken> 2004 will no longer be supported. First,> there is no reason to force me to upgrade.Quicken is not forcing you to upgrade.  They are simply reminding you of something you should have already known.  The sunset policy isn't something new, look it up! The $20> discount is a joke. Second, the primary reason I have> not upgraded in the past is that you TOOK THE> IMPORT/EXPORT CAPABILITY AWAY!!! There was no reason> for that either!!! Why was this feature taken away!!!Way too much punctuation.  Are you trying to get Quicken's attention or are you just slow to remove your finger from the punctuation keys?  Do you know that this is a <b>User to User</b> Forum and that the users of this Forum have heard this dribble over and over and over.  By the way, if the $20 discount is a joke to you, just send it along to me.> If data is damaged, sometimes that is the only way to> get it back! Duh! Export to a flat file, find the> problem and fix it, then import back into Quicken. I> have needed that on a couple of occasions in the MANY> years that I have used Quicken.Also a very discussed topic.  > Here is the reply I received:> In this case I would like to tell you that Export> t Import feature is available in Quicken, you can> export the data from damaged file to new file. This> features is not discontinued.> I am trying to get the straight scoop on whether I> can export damaged files to a flat file, fix them> manually and re-import them into Quicken 2007.  It> sounds to me from Sysvr4 that I CAN'T yet I hear> Quicken support saying yes you can.> WHO KNOWS THE TRUTH!!!???If I were you I wouldn't trust Sysvr4 or Quicken support.  You seem to have the smarts to find out on your own.  Why not give it a try?  Search this Forum and come up with some thoughts of your own.  Hopefully this isn't something you can't do all by yourself.Remember one thing, an intelligent question almost always gets an intelligent response.
                                    First, I emailed quicken before I was ever introduced to this forum.  Second, yes, if you want to be able to download data directly from your FI, you are FORCED to upgrade.  I have never seen a software vendor intentionally REMOVE functionality.  It's just stupid unless you want to gouge your customers and their FI's." users of this Forum have heard this dribble "It's not "dribble", it's "drivel".  "Dribble", is that stuff running out of the corner of your mouth and down your chin.On the possibility of fixing and restoring damaged data, you say "Also a very discussed topic."  Then you must have the answer, musn't you genius?  How about sharing it instead of just criticizing the question?  Maybe you're not as smart as you think."Search this Forum and come up with some thoughts of your own."My question was put out in good faith because I didn't know the answer.  Go back and read your response.  It offers absolutely nothing of value.  Here are some words for you to live by, iiimaf ... better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it and remove all doubt.
                                      > First, I emailed quicken before I was ever introduced> to this forum.  Second, yes, if you want to be able> to download data directly from your FI, you are> FORCED to upgrade.  I have never seen a software> vendor intentionally REMOVE functionality.  It's just> stupid unless you want to gouge your customers and> their FI's.> " users of this Forum have heard this dribble "> It's not "dribble", it's "drivel".  "Dribble", is> that stuff running out of the corner of your mouth> and down your chin.I first used "drivel" but changed it to "dribble" because, "that stuff running out of the corner of your mouth and down your chin," was just what I was going for.  Drivel just didn't seem appropriate.  To be honest, I reached for the dictionary and Roget's to make sure I got it right.> On the possibility of fixing and restoring damaged> data, you say "Also a very discussed topic."  Then> you must have the answer, musn't you genius?Since we are playing teacher, the correct spelling is mustn't. > How about sharing it instead of just criticizing the> question?  Maybe you're not as smart as you think.> "Search this Forum and come up with some thoughts of> your own."Doing some work on your own isn't your style I guess.  If you aren't willing to put time into the solution why would anyone want to help you?  Your attitude that Intuit is wrong and your are right doesn't cut it with me.  They are a corporation and make corporate decisions based on the information they have.  In so doing they are going to make some users unhappy along the way.  You are obviously one of those unhappy campers.  I am one of the users who has accepted ancient history and has moved on.> My question was put out in good faith because I> didn't know the answer.  Go back and read your> response.  It offers absolutely nothing of value.It wasn't intended to provide anything of value.> Here are some words for you to live by, iiimaf ...> . better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a> fool than open it and remove all doubt.And then there's the one about people who live in glass houses ...
                                        > > I completely agree with you, Sysvr4.> > > > The pointless rantings of 'dbAnalyst', 'iiimaf',> and> > 'yarbie1000' notwithstanding: it is one thing to> > discontinue support for older products, but to> > time-bomb the existing features (Internet> download)> > that you paid for seems like fraud to me.  I'm no> > lawyer, but that's how I see it.  If somebody> wants> > to start a class-action lawsuit against Intuit,> I'll> > sign the petition.> > > > I really don't mind paying Intuit for their> product,> > but I don't like this business model: rather than> > enticing users to upgrade based on compelling new> > features, they are simply punishing users and> FORCING> > them to upgrade by removing the features that> already> > exist.  Talk about giving the 'one finger salute'> to> > loyal customers.> > > > Upgrading to new software is always a pain, and I> > would prefer to just keep my existing version of> > Quicken and pay a yearly download subscription fee> --> > maybe $10/year -- for the Internet features.>  Intuit> > would make money and I don't get jerked-around.> > Of course you would then complain that the tax> functions in Quicken were out of date and useless or> that revised treatment of IRA's wasn't properly> handled.  People like you will always see the dark> side of things and will always see the glass half> full.I believe the analogy you were struggling to find was: "...glass half <u>empty</u>."However, I would say that the opposite criticism could be said about you, iiimaf.  You have close to 400 posts: originally I thought, "Here's a guy in need of a hobby," but after browsing through some of your posts and noting that they were all decidedly well-aligned with Intuit's Party Line, I have concluded that you are what is known  as a 'paid product advocate', funded by Intuit to hang-out on the BBS and quash any criticism voiced by disgruntled users.Thus, I hope you understand that it is difficult for serious users to assign any credibility to your 'opinions'.Nevertheless, I'll play the game.> > > > > However, because they are (again) forcing me to> > upgrade, I really do have to examine other> options.> > Intuit isn't forcing you to upgrade.  You have every> right to take your money elsewhere. You are partially correct in this.  Intuit does not have a gun to my head.  Furthermore, as Quicken 2004 still supports QIF export, I can export my accounts to a generic file format that can be imported by a competing product (GnuCash, MS Money, etc....).  In fact, it is this ease of switching products that gets my vote as the reason Intuit has reduced/eliminated QIF functionality on later Quicken releases (ecgberht, do you agree?).Thus, while I don't have a gun to my head with Quicken 2004, users of later versions of Quicken <i>do</i> have a <i>lock</i> pointed at their financial records.  The idea the Intuit is using this approach to keep customer loyalty strikes me as pretty disgusting.> > > What I <i>really</i> want is a Quicken-like> program> > m that works on Linux -- now that would be a> > COMPELLING feature of the type to which I was> > referring, which would entice me to upgrade.> > And I suppose you would be outraged if they wanted> you to pay for it?Selective memory must be a common trait among zealots.  Let me refer you to my previous paragraph, the one that begins with: "I really don't mind paying Intuit for their product...."> > > However, for reasons that defy my comprehension,> > , Intuit has repeatedly resisted all calls to port> > Quicken to the Linux platform -- a platform on> which> > they would have virtually no competition (do you> > think Microsoft is going to release a Linux> version> > of Money?).  Heck, they are already 90% there with> > the Mac OS X version of Quicken, but Intuit> refuses> > to release a Linux version!  What incompetent yutz> is> > calling the shots at Intuit?  I'm glad I'm not a> > stockholder.> > Probably someone with a better head for marketing> than yours.  If Windows has 90% of the desktop> market, how much does that leave for Mac and Linux?> I'm not really very good with percentages, can you> u help me with the math?> I would be happy to help you with the math, but this isn't really a math problem.  It is more of a business strategy problem.I didn't suggest that Intuit should abandon the Windows market in favor of the Mac/Linux market -- that would be extremely stupid.  Rather, I said that Intuit already has a product (Quicken for Mac OS X) that could be easily adapted to a Linux platform and sold, not given away for free, to the growing base of Linux users.  In doing so, Intuit could secure complete dominance of a rival platform without having to spend any effort to compete against Microsoft.  True, the existing base of Linux users is small in comparison to Windows users, but as a percentage, is growing more rapidly than either Windows or Mac.  While Windows will likely dominate the U.S. and European markets in the near to mid-term, Linux has the potential to unseat Windows in developing countries (China, Africa, South America).  Thus, being the 'only game in town' for Linux would put Intuit in a great position as the Linux platform grows in popularity, while still being in the game on the Windows platform.  Think about all those potential Quicken users in China....> > > > So, as I am locked into the Windows platform with> > both Quicken and MS Money, and as I now am being> > forced into buying new financial software for that> > platform, I might as well try MS Money.> > Go for it, but start getting a draft complaint ready> for Microsoft's two year sunset policy.  By the way,> it was Microsoft that started the sunset race in the> first place.No argument here.  I don't appreciate Micro$oft's business practices, either.  Their marketing strategy seems far to focused on litigation (both suing and being sued).  I am just disappointed to see Intuit follow suit.  In this particular situation, however, both of the big financial software vendors are playing the same game, but one of them owns the playing field: the Windows OS.  If I'm stuck with using Microsoft's platform, I might as well use Microsoft's financial software.Intuit should pay a little more attention to the fate of Netscape.  Remember them?  How are they doing these days?
                                          > Quicken is not forcing you to upgrade. They are simply > reminding you of something you should have already known. > The sunset policy isn't something new, look it up!Having just reviewed all of your posts in this thread, I note that you have not yet conceded that there is in fact a difference between EOL'ing a product and removing one if its key features.  That is what prompted the initiation of this thread.  You DO understand the difference, right?  > By the way, if the $20 discount is a joke to you, just > send it along to me.I would send you mine but I would hate to incentivize anyone to use Intuit's products.> If I were you I wouldn't trust Sysvr4 or Quicken > support.To be clear, I never once made any representations one way or another on this topic.  In fact, if you read my original post, I'm ASKING these same types of questions and never really got a response (your own ridiculous first reply and others like it notwithstanding).I have since learned that > 2005 versions will import QIF files to cash accounts and nothing else.  For me that's not an acceptable limitation, so I've changed products.  I sleep very soundly knowing that I will never be coerced (if you don't like the word 'forced') into upgrading software again.
                                            "Since we are playing teacher, the correct spelling is mustn't. "I first used "mustn't" but changed it to "musn't" because, it's not that hard to keep someone like you running for the dictionary, so "mustn't" just didn't seem appropriate.  Or maybe I just mis-typed.Now get off my cloud, you are a waste of my time."I have concluded that you are what is known as a 'paid product advocate',"I suspected as much after his first reply to me."In fact, it is this ease of switching products that gets my vote as the reason Intuit has reduced/eliminated QIF functionality on later Quicken releases"Actually, no, because I think you can still export to QIF from Quicken 2005 and later, you just can't import a QIF file.  My understanding from the research I have done (even though "doing work on my own is not my style") is the reason Quicken has done this is to try to force financial institutions to pay them so their clients can download into quicken.  Otherwise users could just download the information into QIF and import into Quicken.  I think you can export, however.  But, I can't seem to get a straight answer out of anybody as to the capabilities, including iiimf who seems to think he knows all about Quicken but doesn't care to share any of his vast knowledge."so I've changed products"Sysvr4, what did you switch to.  I've only looked at gnucash so far.
                                              I've been on the chat session for 3 hours, we got nothing done.  All Quicken could say is have your bank representative can call Customer Service in the morning!  LOL, what to get more money out of them?  Quicken stopped working for me Saturday the 3rd of Feb 2007, so I thought I had to upgrade, so out I go and shelled out some more money to get the program I enjoy working with to work again, NOT, no way it won't work, so yes is there a way to convert my files to Money?  At least I never had these issues!  Quicken is also blaming the bank, yet my bank is listed as a financial institute that Quicken uses, but he still could not explain how and why I can not download from my bank, which I've done for over 2 years or so....Go figure!
                                                teddie, I understand your frustration, believe me.  I have (what sounds like) a similar problem with a brokerage account.  What I do is go to the account details, then to Online Services and Deactivate.  Then Activate and key the log-in information in again.  It then connects.  I have multiple accounts with the brokerage and sometimes some of them just stop working until I do this.  Hope this is helpful.
                                                  I completely agree with those here that think this forced upgrade stinks.  I have been using quicken since the DOS days... actually did not upgrade to a windows version until 2001 and then upgraded to 2004 Premier on my own (because it had features I wanted, not because I got a letter... never did get a letter forcing an upgrade from 2001).  I have always been to one to upgrade only when a newer version of a program had features I wanted that current version didn't. I upgraded to 2004 Premier because it had stock tracking features that my 2001 basic did not.  I had NO idea that Intuit disables features after 3 years!  Some of you with your "anybody who's anybody KNOWS Intuit does this" attitudes should lighten up.  Like I said, I have been using Quicken for years and did not know they did this.  Why didn't I know?  Maybe because NOWHERE on the box does it say something to the effect that "buyer should be aware that purchase of this software constitutes and 3 year rental only, and at the end of the 3 year period important features will be disabled". I like the analogy someone made of "coming to my house and wrecking my car so I have to buy a new one".  I think it should be considered false advertising that they do not UP FRONT (on the box) explain that certain features will be disabled and the user will be forced to buy a new version after 3 years.  Like others, I can see them discontinuing tech support and program updates, etc. But come on.. they never did fix all the bugs in 2004 (too busy working on the 2005 version??) anyway.  I there were no ?program updates? after about Feb of 2004 to fix any of the many remaining bugs.  The last program update I got was 2 days ago, WHEN THE PROGRAM WAS UPDATED TO INCLUDE ANNOYING POP-UP MESSAGES OF THE IMPENDING REVOCATION OF PROGRAM FEATURES that I paid for in the original purchase!Actually upgrading to 2004 was a pain.  The conversion did not go well... the program was full of bugs (most of which they never did fix!).  I've learned to live with the bugs (like a financial program that can't seem to properly calculate net worth?.. gets it right in one part of the program and not in another..) And Intuits tech support (or total lack thereof!) is ALWAYS: delete your data file, reinstall the program and re-enter all data by hand.  I don't care what the problem is... that is always the first "fix" they tell me. I'm not looking forward to having to go through this "upgrade' process again.What compels them (other than $$) to put out a new bug fill version EVERY year anyway? They obviously can?t get the bugs out of it in that amount of time, so why do they release a new version each year?  Is it those people that feel they can?t use a program if it doesn?t have the current year in the title, so they buy it each and every year, which makes if profitable for Intuit to force out a new version every 12 months??Anyway, I'd definitely join in a class action suit.  I don't even want to upgrade to 2007... I does not have any new features that would seem useful to me.  They have dropped some features I like.  Have to learn a new interface etc. and from what I have been reading, the program has as many if not more bugs that my 2004 version did.  I?d be willing to pay a small fee each year use my 2004 and still retain the ability to download data.I feel mislead, but don?t have many options.. not much in the way of competition either.  I hear just as many complaints about MS Money.  Guess all we can do is grouse about it here, get it off my chest.. I know certainly Intuit is NOT listening and nothing will change... they used to put out such a good product too...
                                                    > i agree with sysvr4. I have no problem with them> dropping support, but to turn off a feature> arbitrarily is too much.  Purchased software should> not have time-bombs!> > I wonder if Intuit publishes a list of features that> will stop working in Quicken 2007 in 3 years.Do you people even bother to read the replies in this thread.  Yes Quicken has published a list of features that will stop working in Quicken 2007 in three years.  It is in the License Agreement that you ignored when you first installed the product.  You can still read it if you want.  Open Help, click on index and type in license.  Double click on "license, software license agreement.> > After using TurboTax for many years, i switched to> TaxCut when Intuit tried to force on-line activation> on me.  I guess now i'll be looking for a Quicken> replacement.> > Re QIF support, see> http://web.intuit.com/personal/quicken/qif/qif_faqs.ht&gt; ml> but it confirms that investment accts can't import> QIF in Q-2005 or later.
                                                      <text deleted by iiimaf>> > I believe the analogy you were struggling to find> was: "...glass half <u>empty</u>."Right on.  Good catch but there was no struggle involved.  I was pre-occupied with pre-super bowl chatter on the tube and a couple of beers and I am the glass is half full kind of guy so it was a slip.  I'll try not to let it happen again.> > However, I would say that the opposite criticism> could be said about you, iiimaf.  You have close to> 400 posts: originally I thought, "Here's a guy in> need of a hobby," but after browsing through some of> your posts and noting that they were all decidedly> well-aligned with Intuit's Party Line, I have> concluded that you are what is known  as a 'paid> product advocate', funded by Intuit to hang-out on> the BBS and quash any criticism voiced by disgruntled> users.You were going alone so nicely there for a minute.  Maybe you should take another look at my posts.  Let's take this thread and examine the posts.  In summary we have a few unhappy campers who didn't read the license agreement and are very disturbed that Intuit could do such a thing.  Well, they can do it, they did do it and in all probability, they are going to continue to do it.Your conclusion that I am a "'paid product advocate', funded by Intuit to hang-out on the BBS and quash any criticism voiced by disgruntled users," is laughable.  I have as of today, 401 posts in 288 days.  That works out to about 1.4 post a day.  I have also had a number of post that were very unflattering to Intuit and their Quicken software.  And since you suggested that I might be using "selective memory," I guess I can say it works both ways.In threads like this one where the hysteria is based on ignorance of the facts, I am going to voice my opinion against the ignorance.  If that seems to support Intuit, so be it, they clearly stated their intentions and are not guilty of anything.<text deleted>
                                                        > Sysvr4, what did you switch to. I've only looked at > gnucash so far.Gnucash.  And I'm absolutely sold.  Let me describe my situation so that you can adequately distinguish it from your own and make an informed decision.I switched from XP to an intel mac about a year ago.  Since that time I have been using parallels to run XP and Quicken 2004 to do my accounting.  It was a pain, but much less so than converting to Intuit's very much crippled Mac OS version, so I did it.  And that worked fine and I would have continued with this method until I received said letter.Upon reviewing my options post-letter, I decided on the following criteria from my accounting package (in no particular order):a) Must allow me to avoid having this same situation occur again in a few yearsb) Must run natively on Macsc) Must support downloadingd) Must support importing of QIF files to arbitrary accountse) Must import my old data (all 8 years of it) in a correct (or readily correctable) fashion.Criteria (a) disallowed MS and Intuit products.  Various other native mac accounting programs were excluded by other criteria.  That left me with gnucash, which I had tried many years before and had not liked (various reasons).  However, the program has come a LONG way, so, if you will permit me, I'll espouse some of its many benefits I have already noticed:1)  Double-entry accountingThis is first for a reason.  It was with no small amount of trepidation that I tried gnucash after reading about it being a double-entry accounting program.  What I discovered was that   a) it was not a big deal to convert (time-consuming maybe, but not difficult) and   b) it is almost indescribably better than quicken's single-entry systemWhy?  Because you're forced to enter the account from which new money comes.  And you're forced to enter the account to which your spending goes.  It's very much like categories, but the categories will BALANCE with the rest of your accounts.  In short, because categories effectively become accounts in their own right, it's like having many of Quicken's reports shown on the main account page at all times.  2)  It's open source.Even if you're not a programmer, this is a huge benefit.  It means that no corporation will ever coerce you into upgrading to their latest offering.  Upgrading is always a pain, and it's now one I no longer have to fear.It also means that your accounting program can never become obsolete.  Don't like the lack of a certain feature?  Even if you're not a coder, you at least have the option of paying someone else to code it for you.  You don't have this option with closed-source solutions.3)  The data file is XML (text).No proprietary formats designed to tie you to a particular product.  With a little know-how you can make whatever you want out of your data.  And any text editor will be able to read it for the rest of your life.4)  No more fluff in my faceI always hated the main quicken page.  They seem bent on putting up a lot of mindless garbage I did not care to see on the page.  I was interested in my ACCOUNTS not in how waiting two weeks to sell XXX would save me 47.32 in tax.  And yeah, I know the screen is customizable, but it wasn't so customizable as to allow me to remove all of its annoying attributes.There are other benefits, but I won't bore you with a long drawn-out account of them all.All that said, there were some drawbacks. I had to manually enter back in all my stock tickers and there were a large number of transactions that went to an "Imbalance" account that had to be corrcted manually.  But all-in-all, the data import went remarkably better than I expected.The program is also HARD to install unless you can get a pre-built package for it on your system.  This is something I'm going to work on building for other folks with macs.  Many linux distributions also have packages but YMMV.Lastly, I have experienced a few miscellaneous crashes and there are a couple of features that I can't quite get to work yet.  Fortunately, since its open source, I know it is just a matter of time before either someone fixes them or I fix it myself.So there you have it.  My full review.  Best of luck if you try it.--http://www.gnucash.org
                                                          Nice idea, but it doesn't look like it supports Windows at all  :(  Did I read it wrong?
                                                            > Nice idea, but it doesn't look like it supports Windows at > all :( Did I read it wrong?Not sure what you read.  There is a win32 (windows) version, but I have never used or installed it.  More info here:http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/WindowsIt looks fairly new, so it might be that you'd actually be better off installing linux and running a linux version of it.  Fortunately, both are free, but if you've never used either, the task will not be easy.  If you do try it on linux, I'd recommend ubuntu:http://www.ubuntu.com/--http://www.gnucash.org
                                                              "All that said, there were some drawbacks. I had to manually enter back in all my stock tickers and there were a large number of transactions that went to an "Imbalance" account that had to be corrcted manually. But all-in-all, the data import went remarkably better than I expected."So, in other words, the conversion worked flawlessly?...stock tickers not entered, "large number" of transactions needing correction.  Sounds like nirvana (sarcasm intended)."The program is also HARD to install unless you can get a pre-built package for it on your system. This is something I'm going to work on building for other folks with macs. Many linux distributions also have packages but YMMV."Program is "HARD to install"...and you thought Quicken has installation problems?  And whereas I am pleased that you found a financial package that works with Linux, I am pretty sure that would be a rather small minority of Quicken users that are looking for that capability."Lastly, I have experienced a few miscellaneous crashes and there are a couple of features that I can't quite get to work yet. Fortunately, since its open source, I know it is just a matter of time before either someone fixes them or I fix it myself."Hmmm, a "few miscellaneous crashes"...just what I want...and "features I can't quite get to work yet"...another thing I want in my financial software.Since it's open source, instead of helping out here on the forum, maybe I can go to the local community college at night and take a few half dozen classes in programming so I can source up the software to get it to work without crashes and to add the things I want.  Yah right!  I think I'll pass.I do have to give you credit for giving a rather unbiased review, however.
                                                                > So, in other words, the conversion worked > flawlessly?...Please point out where in my post I even hinted at the a flawless conversion.  > ..and you thought Quicken has installation problems?Please point out anywhere that I have said this.  I said Quicken has problems delivering the features upon which they sell their product as well as an uncanny knack for coercion of upgrades.  Your reading comprehension is clearly filtered through the Intuit-fanboy prism.> Hmmm, a "few miscellaneous crashes"...just what I > want...and "features I can't quite get to work > yet"...another thing I want in my financial software.To this I have four points:1) I never claimed gnucash was perfect2) I'm running it on a mac, and most development is done on linux, thus I expect some hiccups3) It's opensource so I can fix it.  Can you fix the bugs in whichever version of quicken you're using?  I'll take your stunned silence as an emphatic "no".4) It should say a LOT about the magnitude of the continued pain of "upgrading" in perpetuity to purposefully broken Intuit products that I'm willing to endure a few minor problems with gnucash.> I do have to give you credit for giving a rather > unbiased review, however.Why bother?  You've only quoted the negative portions of my review, clearly revealing your agenda.And here's the part that will shock you.  I really do not care in the slightest what your feelings are on the subject.  I'm not persuading people one way or another.  You yourself said to look at other products.  I have.  I found one markedly better than Quicken, IMO, and I have reported it.  Or by "Explore other financial software packages then" did you mean instead "explore other financial software products but for God's sake keep your mouth shut about it so as not to offend my Intuit-homage-paying sensibilities".  You can't have it both ways, chief.My review was posted, so that others may (and I quote) "make an informed decision".  It all boils down to the fact that, in an Epicurean sense, there is considerably less long-term pain associated with this open source product, even with the shortcomings I have outlined, than with being under the thumb of a corporation whose unabashed purpose is to extort money from its customers by time-bombing existing products and removing needed features from subsequent versions.But please, do keep supporting the shareholders if it makes you feel better.  I'll bet they appreciate it.Btw, this will be my last post here.  You may have the last word, thought I suspect you will fail miserably in your attempts to do yourself justice with it if your previous posts are any indication of your abilities.--http://www.gnucash.org
                                                                  > > So, in other words, the conversion worked > > flawlessly?...> > Please point out where in my post I even hinted at> the a flawless conversion.  > My observation...therefore, it is NOT a flawless installation, nor is Quicken 2007 for some users.  I guess you didn't catch the sarcasm!> > ..and you thought Quicken has installation> problems?>You said installing GnuCash is "HARD" (you used the capitalization, not me).  We all know installing Quicken 2007 has had some major issues for some users.  Also, my observation...notice no quotes around my comments. > Please point out anywhere that I have said this.  I> said Quicken has problems delivering the features> upon which they sell their product as well as an> uncanny knack for coercion of upgrades.  Your reading> comprehension is clearly filtered through the> Intuit-fanboy prism.> Hey, you are barking up the wrong tree here.  I am one of Quicken/Intuit's biggest critics when it comes to some issues...believe me when I tell you that I have also looked at alternative software.Suggest you look at more of my posts...I can be critical as well as praising Quicken, depending on the issue.> > Hmmm, a "few miscellaneous crashes"...just what I > > want...and "features I can't quite get to work > > yet"...another thing I want in my financial> software.> > To this I have four points:> > 1) I never claimed gnucash was perfect> > 2) I'm running it on a mac, and most development is> done on linux, thus I expect some hiccups> > 3) It's opensource so I can fix it.  Can you fix the> bugs in whichever version of quicken you're using?>  I'll take your stunned silence as an emphatic "no".> No, I can't fix it.  And since I have zero programming skills, I wouldn't be able to fix or add on to GnuCash as well.  I am happy you are skilled to do that, but for most users, that would be impossible.> 4) It should say a LOT about the magnitude of the> continued pain of "upgrading" in perpetuity to> purposefully broken Intuit products that I'm willing> to endure a few minor problems with gnucash.> Well, I guess because it is free, upgrading wouldn't be a problem.  Because, we all know, upgrades (other than Quicken) always work perfectly.  Oh and if GnuCash doesn't you will be able to debug it and fix it.  Sorry, I'm not that smart, since I have limited reading comprehension and Intuit filtered vision.> > I do have to give you credit for giving a rather > > unbiased review, however.> > Why bother?  You've only quoted the negative portions> of my review, clearly revealing your agenda.> I have no agenda, and I guess you can't even take a compliment.> And here's the part that will shock you.  I really do> not care in the slightest what your feelings are on> the subject.  I'm not persuading people one way or> another.  You yourself said to look at other> products.  I have.  I found one markedly better than> Quicken, IMO, and I have reported it.  Or by "Explore> other financial software packages then" did you mean> instead "explore other financial software products> but for God's sake keep your mouth shut about it so> as not to offend my Intuit-homage-paying> sensibilities".  You can't have it both ways, chief.> So, its okay for you to post your point of view, my view should be censored or responded to as trivial or unimportant?  What makes your view more important than others?Read my other posts...that includes those posters who are looking for another software that will download .qif transactions after their Quicken 2004 version is retired.  I have recommended they look for other alternatives, including MoneyDance and AceMoney...programs that still download .qif, .qfx and .ofx formats.  How is that an "Intuit homage paying sensibility"?> My review was posted, so that others may (and I> quote) "make an informed decision".  It all boils> down to the fact that, in an Epicurean sense, there> is considerably less long-term pain associated with> this open source product, even with the shortcomings> I have outlined, than with being under the thumb of a> corporation whose unabashed purpose is to extort> money from its customers by time-bombing existing> products and removing needed features from subsequent> versions.> > But please, do keep supporting the shareholders if it> makes you feel better.  I'll bet they appreciate it.I am one of the biggest critics of Quicken who posts regularly on this forum.  The program they produce is far from perfect.  Quicken 2007, in my opinion from the posts I read here, is something I would NEVER upgrade to.  When my version retires in 2009, I will have to take a hard look at the Quicken product PLUS the other alternatives.  I am certainly not locked into Quicken, despite me being a user since the DOS days with a ton of transactions.  So far, using Q2006, I am able to use Quicken to most of its capability.  The tax planner is a train wreck (as I have talked about endlessly), as are other annoyances, which I think should be fixed but always falls on deaf ears.  It is maddening to think that a commercial product can be produced like this, but so far, it is superior to any other product I have investigated.> > Btw, this will be my last post here.  You may have> the last word, thought I suspect you will fail> miserably in your attempts to do yourself justice> with it if your previous posts are any indication of> your abilities.> > --> http://www.gnucash.orgEnjoy your Linux life.  When you get GnuCash all debugged, will you let us know?
                                                                    I was not going to post again but something iiimaf posted intrigued me to post againOne thing all the large posters in this forum need to understand when users like me post their displeasure - it?s new to use.  This debate will not end the only change will be the identity of the frustrated user as long as they lease the WebConnector and FI have the option:  ?Quicken Interchange (.qif) file format?.  I?ve used quicken for 10 years never had a need to use this forum or call support, until I upgraded to 2007.The interesting point brought out by iiimaf on the license file that I bet 99.9 percent of the install base never reads. Quickens critical statement:Critical Notice for Quicken 2004 Customers About Quicken Online ServicesAs of April 30th, 2007, Online Services and live technical support will no longer be available for Quicken 2004 users.BELOW is the Quicken 2004 agreement for the online services - I fail to see where this is explained_ in fact the first paragraph is the opposite.  WHAT it should point out is the WebConnector is a 3-year LEASED connector with no option to buy or extended you MUST buy new/upgrade product to gain access again.?Online ServicesOnline Banking, Online Payment, Online Investment Account Download, Online Bill Pay, Online Trading, WebConnect, and any other online financial services available through the Internet and selected Intuit products ("Online Services") are provided by your financial institution or other third party, and not Intuit (excluding Quicken Bill Pay). Access to Online Services can be through the optional use of the PIN Vault. The PIN Vault allows you to store your designated PINs and passwords for multiple financial institutions in one place with a Vault Password created by yourself to access your account information. The PIN Vault is designed for high security, but factors such as a well-chosen password, physical security for your computer and proper safeguards when you use a network or the Internet are all important. Because most of these factors are beyond Intuit's control, you agree that Intuit is not liable for safeguarding your PIN Vault data.You agree not to hold Intuit liable for any loss or damage of any sort incurred as a result of any such dealings with any services provided by your financial institution or other third party. Your access may be limited from time to time, depending on the service provided by your internet service provider or your financial institution or other third party. You may be billed for these Online Services by your financial institution or other third party, not Intuit, and such financial institution or other third party may have its own service agreement which will govern the Online Services it provides. You agree to be responsible for all telephone charges associated with your Internet and Online Service usage. You may be required to register with Intuit or a third party in order to use Online Services. Your use of Online Services may be subject to additional terms and conditions. All Online Services are subject to change.If and when you connect to the Internet to update your data, Intuit may also include Intuit Software updates (i.e., service information, help content, etc.) in the update transmission.?I?m pretty much over this and will move on
                                                                      I have never gotten an answer to this question.  I know you can't import .qif in Quicken 2007, but can you export or can you do neither?  I know iiimf knows, because he/she knows everything, but he just likes to criticize other posters without actually adding anything to the discussion.  Can anyone answer this question>
                                                                        WHAT it should point out is the WebConnector is a 3-year LEASED connector with no option to buy or extended you MUST buy new/upgrade product to gain access again.This is what happened to me, they shut down their services to my Credit Union, apparently 3 years is not long enough, but remember Intuit has to get that all mighty buck, but they also have to remember, they are also losing customers in the process.  Consumers will only get jerked around so much and then they will never go back!!I also am currently looking for another financial product to use, according to my searches Money seems to come out ahead of Quicken, guess I should have staid where the gettin was good  _)
                                                                          I am assuming that your credit union declined the offer to submit transactions in .qfx quicken proprietary format (probably for financial reasons---they didn't want to pay the fee).That is the reason your credit union "was cut off".  Blame your CU, not Intuit.
                                                                            Sorry not blaming them, Credit Unions work for the people and not the industry!  So it is basically your loss here!
                                                                              Sorry, but since I don't have any money in your credit union, it is no loss to me.You are losing out on the ability to download transactions into Quicken.  I understand that credit unions are smaller institutions that offer a higher rate of interest on your savings.  I understand that in order to pay these higher rates of interest, they have to run a "tight ship" with less frills.  I also understand that paying Intuit a hefty sum to offer .qfx transactions cuts into their profit.Just don't complain when your CU is running things on the cheap.  It's not Intuit's fault or problem.
                                                                                Here's a thought my husband just had... if Intuit provided free services to financial banks and the like, (and of coarse the problems all listed here on this forum, were fixed) now think of this, how many consumers would be out buying said product??  Quicken is thinking backwards here and not forward... let's get in the game folks!  (Oh and if the company should decide to try this idea, I have copyrights!) lol
                                                                                  They also might be running a "tight ship" as you put it...but I don't pay all these bank fees I use to pay for this that and the other thing..All Quicken would have to do is raise their software pricing, should be easy for them they do it all the time, and everyone would be working for a common good!  Just an idea, but that's working for the people and not a corporation of sorts...
                                                                                    They aren't thinking backwards...they sell Quicken Premier at about $60 a pop.They charge banks waaaayyyyy more to use their .qfx format. They had the .qif imports before, which were free for banks.  Quicken changed its business model to a more secure download, and in the meantime changed it slightly so they could make the financial institutions pay a hefty fee.  I always think what would have happened if NONE of the financial institutions agreed to the .qfx concept and pricing.  THEY could have really stuck it to Intuit. Personally, I like the idea of letting users Q2005 and later (post .qif downloads) having the option to pay a fee to re-add downloads to their retired product.  The users might even be willing to pay up to the original price for another three years of functionality using their current Quicken product.But, I'm not Intuit, and I'm sure they would never see the advantage of doing that.  They prefer users just upgrade to a newer package, despite the problems that exist with the newer product.Just my opinion!
                                                                                      They do that so you can "upgrade" to the newer version that, as you can see, is rife with problems.  Your version worked just fine and when they charge a fee for technical support, they just can't have that.
                                                                                        I just finished a paid for Quicken chat session asking about Quicken 2004.  Like the original poster I have one financial institution (a large one) that for some reason does not support any kind of download and I have created a program to extract the data from my account on their website, and create a .qif file of it which I can then import into Quicken 2004.  My other financial institutions I already download directly from within quicken and they use the OFX standard (Citi bank card is one of them).  Thus I asked the quicken help person would I still be able to download from those other institutions as before using my Quicken 2004 after April 2007 and he indicated YES.  He did however also indicate that what would not be supported anymore is any kind of downloads from Quicken.com including stock price updates, any online registration with Quicken.com, and any online technical support.  Thus it appears I can still do the things I need to do with 2004 for at least a while longer.  If I could ever get my other institution to support downloads I would buy the latest version of quicken.  My only other alternatives are to use different financial software or frequently enter transactions by hand from the one institution that does not support any downloads so I avoid any marathon sessions of manual entries of data for it.
                                                                                          > I just finished a paid for Quicken chat session> asking about Quicken 2004.  Like the original poster> I have one financial institution (a large one) that> for some reason does not support any kind of download> and I have created a program to extract the data from> my account on their website, and create a .qif file> of it which I can then import into Quicken 2004.  My> other financial institutions I already download> directly from within quicken and they use the OFX> standard (Citi bank card is one of them).  > Thus I> asked the quicken help person would I still be able> to download from those other institutions as before> using my Quicken 2004 after April 2007 and he> indicated YES.  Unless Intuit has changed their policy recently, I think you'll find that this answer was incorrect.  I believe all downloads by Quicken will be sunsetted this April.> He did however also indicate that> what would not be supported anymore is any kind of> downloads from Quicken.com including stock price> updates, any online registration with Quicken.com,> and any online technical support.  Thus it appears I> can still do the things I need to do with 2004 for at> least a while longer.  If I could ever get my other> institution to support downloads I would buy the> latest version of quicken.  My only other> alternatives are to use different financial software> or frequently enter transactions by hand from the one> institution that does not support any downloads so I> avoid any marathon sessions of manual entries of data> for it.--John PollardPlease post your questions in the forums: I do not reply to "Messages"
                                                                                            I just tried to use the on-click scorecard from Q2004.  Although it's supposed to be good until April 30th, it already doesn't allow me in with Q2004.  Another case of Quicken lying to and betraying its customers.
                                                                                              > I just tried to use the on-click scorecard from> Q2004.  Although it's supposed to be good until April> 30th, it already doesn't allow me in with Q2004.I just successfully downloaded quotes and transactions to Q2004H&B.> Another case of Quicken lying to and betraying its> customers.Another case of a Quicken user jumping to false conclusions and making unsupported defamatory statements.--John PollardPlease post your questions in the forums: I do not reply to "Messages"
                                                                                                Here is a testament to the mess that is Intuit:They buy PayTrust several years ago_PayTrust can ONLY download in a QIF format_PayTrust has no plans to update to make itself compatible with Quicken_Thus, I have kept Quicken 2004 as this is the last version that will import Intuit's OWN subsidiary's data_Now... I have to choose between upgrading to be able to download my bank and credit card transactions and continuing to be able to import my financial transactions from Paytrust?!?!?Give me a break. Unfortunately, the truth is Intuit could care less about customer satisfaction and the only way I can register my displeasure is by never buying Quicken again and discontinuing my PayTrust service.Although a small token in the grand scheme of things, I will make sure to tell everyone I know (and I'm the guy they always ask), not to use Intuit products.This type of stuff will bite them in the arse eventually.... and I'll be LMAO once Intuit releases their bankruptcy reorganization plan.  Give it time... it will happen...--Edited by Wazooda at 02/11/2007 5:12 PM
                                                                                                  > Although a small token in the grand scheme of things,> I will make sure to tell everyone I know (and I'm the> guy they always ask), not to use Intuit products.The vast majority of the rest of us, who actually have a rational view of the real-world - who understand what the real-world can truly offer - will make sure that, not only our *opinion*, but our buying habits, make your opinion worth little.--John PollardPlease post your questions in the forums: I do not reply to "Messages"
                                                                                                    Not buying a product and changing to a competitive product is the strongest message any consumer can make.When the migration is significant, Intuit will look back and go "what happened?".  By then, it may be too late.But as I have stated before, if you are unhappy with the way Quicken works or its company's policies, then switch to another product that meets your needs.You shouldn't feel that you are indebted to any company to use their product if you feel it is inferior and can find a better product.I think that happened to the Edsel, the Beta Max and the 8 track (boy, am I showing my age).
                                                                                                      > Explore other financial software packages then. Yeah, there's:GnuCash (http://www.gnucash.org)KMyMoney (http://kmymoney2.sourceforge.net)Grisbi (http://www.grisbi.org) All open-source apps, multi-platform & free, or evenKapital, while not open-source, is multi-platform, and with TheKompany being a "hungry" company, they're significantly more likely to listen to your needs/wants/issues than Intuit will ever be.About the only reason I run Quicken these days (under Wine on my Ubuntu system) is to 1: help my brother fix problems on his Quicken98 setup on his Windows system (he's still stuck on Windows for a little while) or to export test files for one of the open-source apps.  And the only reason I ever bought Quicken98 was that QW4.0 didn't work under Windows NT.  For all I've ever needed from the "features" Intuit provides, I could readily be using QW2.0 and do the same work.  Since Intuit never implemented the one feature I wanted (transaction notepads). fancier and bloatier features were a non-starter.<Edited by: Quicken Kathryn> Removed external link to sales site.
                                                                                                        > > Although a small token in the grand scheme of> things,> > I will make sure to tell everyone I know (and I'm> the> > guy they always ask), not to use Intuit products.> > The vast majority of the rest of us, who actually> have a rational view of the real-world - who> understand what the real-world can truly offer - will> make sure that, not only our *opinion*, but our> buying habits, make your opinion worth little.> > --> John Pollard> Please post your questions in the forums: I do not> reply to "Messages"Hmmm... 7,597 posts means one of two things:You are a shill for Intuit and thus on their payroll so your opinion is meaningless... or, more disturbingly, you are someone who in about 2 years time has posted 7,597 posts on the enthralling subject of home financial software. Either way, I find it interesting that you did not comment on my point about Paytrust and the lack of support for that product even though an Intuit company.I'm curious how someone who probably does not get out in the real-world finds that I do not understand what the "real-world" has to offer?<Edited by: Quicken Kathryn> Terms of use.
                                                                                                          Interesting.  I see my post was REMOVED.  Hmmm ... wonder whatever happened to the 5th ammendment?  Guess it doesn't apply where Quicken's almighty dollar is concerned or where they feel a need to defend their puppets.  By the way, I have purchased 2007 (with a gun to my head) and am generally satisfied with it although the conversion took at least 4 or 5 hours to complete.  Splits didn't convert correctly and scheduled transactions that should have gone away forever got posted.  I'm not saying don't convert ... if you want do download anything into investment accounts you have no choice, just be prepared for some work.<Edited by: Quicken Kathryn> Terms of use: removed personal attack.
                                                                                                            > Interesting.  I see my post was REMOVED.  Hmmm ... wonder> whatever happened to the 5th ammendment?  Guess it> doesn't apply where Quicken's almighty dollar is> concerned or where they feel a need to defend their> puppets.Thanks for this update.  I have been trying to find that post so I could add my two cents.It's really easy to point a finger on an anonymous forum like this.  So easy in fact, that I might suggest that you and others like you are planted here to stir up discontent with Quicken.Take a step back and explain just what separates your 5th Amendment rights from John Pollard's, or for that matter, mine, or anyone else who disagrees with you.  I'm going to be waiting very patiently for your answer.> By the way, I have purchased 2007 (with a> gun to my head) and am generally satisfied with it> although the conversion took at least 4 or 5 hours to> complete.  Splits didn't convert correctly and> scheduled transactions that should have gone away> forever got posted.  I'm not saying don't convert ...> if you want do download anything into investment> accounts you have no choice, just be prepared for> some work.Just because you didn't read the License Agreement you feel that a gun was held to your head.  That's a very big stretch.  Have you taken the time to read the 2007 License Agreement yet?<Edited by: Quicken Kathryn> Terms of use: removed personal attack
                                                                                                              "I might suggest that you and others like you are planted here to stir up discontent with Quicken."That's just silly.  You think I work for MS?  Trust me, they don't have the time or the inclination to worry about Money. Anyway, I like the product, always have. That's why I'm a 10+ year user. I've tried MS Money and looked at the open source stuff out there.  No comparison.  I have no problem with the software - just the company's practices."Take a step back and explain just what separates your 5th Amendment rights from John Pollard's, or for that matter, mine, or anyone else who disagrees with you."The difference is, his posts weren't removed ... duh."Just because you didn't read the License Agreement you feel that a gun was held to your head."Not with respect to 2007, with respect to 2004.  I would have very happily stayed with that release except the download capabilities were taken away.  Software vendors just don't do that unless they are interested in gouging their customers.  The download capability could have been left alone, unsupported, use at your own risk.  This was a way to FORCE users to upgrade - plain and simple.
                                                                                                                > "I might suggest that you and others like you are> planted here to stir up discontent with Quicken."> That's just silly.  You think I work for MS?  Trust> me, they don't have the time or the inclination to> worry about Money. Anyway, I like the product, always> have. That's why I'm a 10+ year user. I've tried MS> Money and looked at the open source stuff out there.> No comparison.  I have no problem with the software> e - just the company's practices.> "Take a step back and explain just what separates> your 5th Amendment rights from John Pollard's, or for> that matter, mine, or anyone else who disagrees with> you."> The difference is, his posts weren't removed ...> duh.> "Just because you didn't read the License Agreement> you feel that a gun was held to your head."> Not with respect to 2007, with respect to 2004.  I> would have very happily stayed with that release> except the download capabilities were taken away.> Software vendors just don't do that unless they are> e interested in gouging their customers.  The> download capability could have been left alone,> unsupported, use at your own risk.  This was a way to> FORCE users to upgrade - plain and simple.Examples of other software that have limited license agreements requiring you to update/upgrade:TurboTax or TaxCut---functionality for one year (at best).Norton AntiVirus or McAfee AntiVirus---license to download virus definitions for one year.MS Money---license to download transactions and stock/mutual fund data for two years.These software titles also lose their functionality after a prescribed period of time.Yes, it is a money maker for these companies.  The money needed to upgrade is a trivial amount and required to keep the stock/mutual fund quotes, historical prices and other maintenance of the software.  So?  At $29-89 every three years, I find that Quicken is a relative bargain in the software market.  (BTW, if you purchase TurboTax, you get Quicken Basic for free.)And no, I have no affiliation with Quicken or Intuit or any of their products.
                                                                                                                  > "I might suggest that you and others like you are> planted here to stir up discontent with Quicken."> That's just silly.  You think I work for MS?  Trust> me, they don't have the time or the inclination to> worry about Money. Anyway, I like the product, always> have. That's why I'm a 10+ year user. I've tried MS> Money and looked at the open source stuff out there.> No comparison.  I have no problem with the software> e - just the company's practices.> "Take a step back and explain just what separates> your 5th Amendment rights from John Pollard's, or for> that matter, mine, or anyone else who disagrees with> you."> The difference is, his posts weren't removed ...> duh.The only difference I see is that you have a problem with reading and comprehending things like the Quicken License Agreement and the Terms of Use on this forum.  If you had read and comprehended them you wouldn't be arguing a no win issue and you would have known why your post was removed.The phrase "Ignorance is Bliss," fits you to a tee.  If it's "silly" to suggest that you might be on the forum to stir up some discontent in the Quicken community, why is it OK for you to suggest that someone who disagrees with you is a shill for Quicken?  It isn't, and that's what the <u><b>1st Amendment</b></u> is all about.I should know better than to get on this forum before coffee and a shower.  I have already commented on your reading habits but maybe you should take a look at the 1st and 5th Amendments.  Get back to the forum with any questions.> "Just because you didn't read the License Agreement> you feel that a gun was held to your head."> Not with respect to 2007, with respect to 2004.  I> would have very happily stayed with that release> except the download capabilities were taken away.> Software vendors just don't do that unless they are> e interested in gouging their customers.  The> download capability could have been left alone,> unsupported, use at your own risk.  This was a way to> FORCE users to upgrade - plain and simple.
                                                                                                                    I have been a Quicken user for many years.  I bought 2004 three years ago.  Like many others, I was shocked recently to see that Intuit would deliberately disable a key working function to force users to upgrade.  One reason given by Intuit is the cost of continuing the feature.  It would surprise me if continuing the currently-working online features, without support, costs Intuit anything out of pocket.  This is just about forcing people to pay to renew what they already have, which is not mentioned in the 2004 User Agreement.  The User Agreement states that the "Online Services" ... "are provided by your financial institution or other third party, and not Intuit (excluding Quicken Bill Pay)."  If the online services are not provided by Intuit, how can Intuit shut them down?On the other hand, none of us <i><b>bought</b></i> Quicken.  We licensed it.  The User Agreement probably allows Intuit to make changes, or does not expressly deny that that right.  It seems this would be a great case for a lawsuit, but I'm not going to sue them to save $45.  Someone will, though, and they will do it as a class-action, and Intuit will then be required to turn over its customer lists and each of us will receive $1.49 from the inevitable class-action settlement.This is a dramatic and unusual marketing strategem.  No, it is not like someone coming over to your house to smash your car.  It is more like the car manufacturer disabling a functional and relied-upon (though arguably non-essential) feature in the car, like the radio or the security system, and requiring that the owner upgrade to regain its use.  Intuit may not be the first company to do it, and this may be the way things are headed, but it is still distasteful.  When the rules change in the middle of the game, as if a referee deflating his basketball mid-way through the 2nd quarter and refusing pump it back up with Air 2007 until he gets paid more, people have a right to be upset.I will say that I appreciate Intuit for a few things.  Say what you want to about software bugs and oppressive marketing tactics, but just about everyone on here has used Quicken for years and will continue to do so.  The product is mostly reliable and has changed the way most of us organize and manage our finances.  Intuit's 70% market share indicates they have done something right.  (But let's not forget other companies that had a 70% share, or better - Visicorp, WordPerfect, IBM, Lotus, DEC and AT&T, to name just a few, and lost their places because they failed to compete.)I also think we need to acknowledge Intuit for hosting a forum and allowing people to bash them badly on it.  This site DOES cost Intuit money, and they don't have to allow our comments.  They are a private company - the First Amendment does not apply in the least when it comes to this forum.  They do host this forum, though, and I thank them for that.We also can't ignore the relative bargain for the upgrade.  $45 or $60 for three years is nothing.  If someone had come to me 10-15 years ago and said "Pay me $20/yr and you can download, organize, track, reconcile and report on all your finances through one program," I'd have agreed on the spot.  I don't mind the amount of money they want, I just hate the manner they use to get it.Now, all of that said, I have a question that I have not seen addressed on here before.  I have 2004 Deluxe.  From what I read, some of the 2004 Deluxe features have been kicked upstairs to 2007 Premier, such as portfolio analysis and performance reporting.  If this is the case, we have to upgrade to Premier to get features that were part of Deluxe 2004.  Is that right, or am I misreading something?
                                                                                                                      > Now, all of that said, I have a question that I have> not seen addressed on here before.  I have 2004> Deluxe.  > From what I read, some of the 2004 Deluxe> features have been kicked upstairs to 2007 Premier,> such as portfolio analysis and performance reporting.> If this is the case, we have to upgrade to Premier> to get features that were part of Deluxe 2004.  Is> that right, or am I misreading something?I believe you're misreading something.  I can't recall anyone who has demonstrated any features that have been removed from Deluxe (or any other version), and made available only in more expensive versions.  In fact, I believe one or two features are (or are intended to be :) ) available in Q2007 in versions costing less than the versions they were in before.And you don't have to upgrade to Q2007_ Q2005 and Q2006 will still download for 1 and 2 years respectively (assuming the sunset schedule continues as it is now).--John PollardPlease post your questions in the forums: I do not reply to "Messages"--Edited by jepollard at 02/28/2007 11:45 AM
                                                                                                                        > Intuit has been sunsetting the 3-year old version of> Quicken for quite a few years now ... this isn't, by> any means, a new policy.> > And before you threaten to switch to brand-M, their> sunset policy is for 2-year old versions.> It depends on what you mean by sunset.  I run Microsoft Money 2004 and, while they may not be actively fixing it anymore, they did not go and turn it off for me.  I can still pay bills, download statements, etc.  Everything works okay.If Quicken actually turns things off after just three years, that is a really bad corporate policy.
                                                                                                                          First, yes it is the 1st ammendment, of course.  I guess I've been watching too much Law and Order.  However,"The only difference I see is that you have a problem with reading and comprehending things like the Quicken License Agreement and the Terms of Use on this forum. If you had read and comprehended them you wouldn't be arguing a no win issue and you would have known why your post was removed."Talk about reading comprehension!  Where in the 2004 - the only LA that MATTERS does it say these features would be sunsetted!  It doesn't!  I don't care what 2005, 2006, or 2007 LA says, only 2004.  Since you seem to comprehend it so well, why don't you show me where it says features will be removed or "sunsetted".  Don't waste my time with anything but the 2004 LA.  That's the basis on which we bought that product.The bottom line is this.  Intuit is screwing its customers.  Plain and simple.  What is really sad is you're a Quicken customer and you don't even know it!  (Unless, of course, they give you your updates for free as part of your benefits package).  Three years ago, Intuit mgmt recognized that they had let the horse stick its head out of the barn by providing the investment download capability free to customers and that had been a strategic mistake.  The ass end was still in the barn because at least they were charging providers. This is an attempt to yank on the bit and pull the whole horse back in.  It is one of THE ABSOLUTE WORST PR moves I have ever seen.  When you make a mistake like that, as a company, you live with it.  As other posters have noted, it would cost them nothing to keep the download service active for older versions until the promised new format that replaces QIF comes on-line.  If it were then discontinued, people would understand. Again, really not a well thought out strategy.  Intuit has only one thing going for it.  Quicken is best of breed.  If there were any serious competitors with better management and a better pricing strategy, they'd be dead.Oh, and it is a fact that terms of service or no terms of service, Intuit is very selective as to what messages are removed from the board.  That's just plagerism! ... I mean discrimination.
                                                                                                                            > "Take a step back and explain just what separates> your 5th Amendment rights from John Pollard's, or for> that matter, mine, or anyone else who disagrees with> you."> The difference is, his posts weren't removed ...> duh.Open mouth: insert foot.I have had several posts removed from these forums by Intuit, and quite a few more edited by Intuit.  Duh.The only speech rights you have here are those granted by Intuit, and agreed to by you when you signed up to be able to submit posts, and those "rights" apply equally to all posters.--John PollardPlease post your questions in the forums: I don't reply to "Messages"
                                                                                                                              <text removed>> Talk about reading comprehension!  Where in the 2004> - the only LA that MATTERS does it say these features> would be sunsetted!  It doesn't!  I don't care what> 2005, 2006, or 2007 LA says, only 2004.  Since you> seem to comprehend it so well, why don't you show me> where it says features will be removed or> "sunsetted".  Don't waste my time with anything but> the 2004 LA.  That's the basis on which we bought> that product.Since I don't have Quicken 2004 that is going to be a little difficult.  I'll admit that it isn't as explicit as in the 2006 version but it's there.  The paragraph you are requesting has been posted on this forum and I just spent more than a half hour looking for it to no avail.  After all of your ranting I don't expect you to actually open up you License Agreement and find it, and then actually come back and admit that you were wrong.  However, I am hoping that someone else with 2004 will provide the paragraph in question. > The bottom line is this.  Intuit is screwing its> customers.  Plain and simple.  What is really sad is> you're a Quicken customer and you don't even know it!Wrong again!  I read the License Agreements when I install software, so I saw it coming.  I also follow the IT industry.  I even read regular newspapers.  This "sunset policy" has been discussed in many publications for several years and by the way, Intuit didn't come up with the idea.The rest of your rant doesn't rate a comment.> (Unless, of course, they give you your updates for> r free as part of your benefits package).  Three> years ago, Intuit mgmt recognized that they had let> the horse stick its head out of the barn by providing> the investment download capability free to customers> and that had been a strategic mistake.  The ass end> was still in the barn because at least they were> charging providers. This is an attempt to yank on the> bit and pull the whole horse back in.  It is one of> THE ABSOLUTE WORST PR moves I have ever seen.  When> you make a mistake like that, as a company, you live> with it.  As other posters have noted, it would cost> them nothing to keep the download service active for> older versions until the promised new format that> replaces QIF comes on-line.  If it were then> discontinued, people would understand. Again, really> not a well thought out strategy.  Intuit has only one> thing going for it.  Quicken is best of breed.  If> there were any serious competitors with better> management and a better pricing strategy, they'd be> dead.> Oh, and it is a fact that terms of service or no> terms of service, Intuit is very selective as to what> messages are removed from the board.  That's just> plagerism! ... I mean discrimination.
                                                                                                                                > <text removed>> > > Talk about reading comprehension!  > > Where in the 2004> > - the only LA that MATTERS does it > > say these features> > would be sunsetted!  > > It doesn't!  I don't care what> > 2005, 2006, or 2007 LA says, only 2004.  > > Since you seem to comprehend it so well, > > why don't you show me> > where it says features will be removed or> > "sunsetted".  > > Don't waste my time with anything but> > the 2004 LA.  That's the basis on which we bought> > that product.> Since I don't have Quicken 2004 that is going to be a> little difficult.  I'll admit that it isn't as> explicit as in the 2006 version but it's there.  The> paragraph you are requesting has been posted on this> forum and I just spent more than a half hour looking> for it to no avail.  After all of your ranting I> don't expect you to actually open up you License> Agreement and find it, and then actually come back> and admit that you were wrong.  However, I am hoping> that someone else with 2004 will provide the> paragraph in question. <url>http://www.quickenforums.com/thread.jspa?forumID=1003&threadID=800001394&messageID=800006219#800006219</url>The other poster needs to understand that it's not necessary, and probably not possible, for Intuit to specify exactly what they plan to do two, three, four years hence.  What Intuit does do is tell customers that Intuit reserves the right to change terms and conditions for downloading ... same as my credit card company tells me they have the right to change the terms and conditions of use and costs of my credit card.--John PollardPlease post your questions in the forums: I don't reply to "Messages"
                                                                                                                                  "Since I don't have Quicken 2004 that is going to be a  little difficult. I'll admit that it isn't as explicit as in the 2006 version but it's there."  Gee, if you don't have it, how do you "know it's there" unless you are a Intuit/Quicken sycophant.  By the way, there's a new thing called a Google search that will help you find things like that.  You should try it!pollard, thanks for posting the link.  I thought when I saw your name on the referenced post I'd better check it out, and sure enough, it's very misleading.  Why don't you try posting the ENTIRE paragraph of the LA, not just the parts you like:"This Agreement may be terminated by Intuit immediately and without notice if you fail to comply with any term or condition of this Agreement. Upon such termination, you must immediately destroy all complete and partial copies of the Intuit Software, including all backup copies. Intuit shall have the right to change or add to the terms of this Agreement at any time, and to change, discontinue or impose conditions on any feature or aspect of the Intuit Software, or any internet-based services provided to you or made available to you through the use of the Intuit Software. Such changes shall be effective upon notification by any means reasonable to give you actual or constructive notice, or upon posting such terms in the Intuit Software, and your continued use of the Intuit Software will indicate your agreement to any such change."The other poster was right.  This thing is ripe for a court challenge although I know it will never happen.  All this says is, if you keep using the software after we discontinue a feature you accept the change.  What is my alternative ... to stop using it?  Are they going to give me my money back?  I don't think so.  Also, this is a reference to discontinuing a service, period - not a service in a PARTICULAR VERSION OF THE SOFTWARE.  There is a HUGE difference.  It says "to change, discontinue or impose conditions on any feature or aspect of the Intuit Software", not "to change, discontinue or impose conditions on any feature or aspect in a particular version of the Intuit Software"There's your reading comprehension.If Quicken wants to cut out downloads of investments, let 'em.  The LA says they can.  It doesn't say they can pick and choose which releases they want to do it for and therefore BLACKMAIL customers into upgrading software.
                                                                                                                                    > "Since I don't have Quicken 2004 that is going to be> a  little difficult. I'll admit that it isn't as> explicit as in the 2006 version but it's there."> Gee, if you don't have it, how do you "know it's> s there" unless you are a Intuit/Quicken sycophant.You really are one lame, very narrow minded person.  I said it would be "a little difficult."  I also said, "I'll admit that it isn't as explicit as in the 2006 version but it's there."  This should have been a clue to you that I have read it before.  But, once again you are proving to the very few people still interested in this thread, that you aren't hear to discuss things in a rational and intelligent manner.  Your persistent and irrational comments are nothing more than noise.   > By the way, there's a new thing called a Google> e search that will help you find things like that.>  You should try it!Just a subtle FYI, Google isn't new, its been around for quite some time.  And I wouldn't call it a thing.  Most knowledgeable computer users would call it a search engine.  Shortly after it's IPO in August 2004, I bought some of the stock.  Since then I have added to my position.  I haven't sold any of it.> pollard, thanks for posting the link.  I thought when> I saw your name on the referenced post I'd better> check it out, and sure enough, it's very misleading.> Why don't you try posting the ENTIRE paragraph of> f the LA, not just the parts you like:Well, it's about time you checked something out.  You've had the software for quite some time and are just now reading the License Agreement. > "This Agreement may be terminated by Intuit> immediately and without notice if you fail to comply> with any term or condition of this Agreement. Upon> such termination, you must immediately destroy all> complete and partial copies of the Intuit Software,> including all backup copies. Intuit shall have the> right to change or add to the terms of this Agreement> at any time, and to change, discontinue or impose> conditions on any feature or aspect of the Intuit> Software, or any internet-based services provided to> you or made available to you through the use of the> Intuit Software. Such changes shall be effective upon> notification by any means reasonable to give you> actual or constructive notice, or upon posting such> terms in the Intuit Software, and your continued use> of the Intuit Software will indicate your agreement> to any such change."Just for the record, which parts of what you posted above supports YOUR POSITION.> The other poster was right.  This thing is ripe for a> court challenge although I know it will never happen.> All this says is, if you keep using the software> e after we discontinue a feature you accept the> change.  What is my alternative ... to stop using it?> Are they going to give me my money back?  I don't> t think so.  Also, this is a reference to> discontinuing a service, period - not a service in a> PARTICULAR VERSION OF THE SOFTWARE.  There is a HUGE> difference.  It says "to change, discontinue or> impose conditions on any feature or aspect of the> Intuit Software", not "to change, discontinue or> impose conditions on any feature or aspect in a> particular version of the Intuit Software"> There's your reading comprehension.I think you have just provide sufficient evidence of you inability to comprehend the written word.> If Quicken wants to cut out downloads of investments,> let 'em.  The LA says they can.  It doesn't say they> can pick and choose which releases they want to do it> for and therefore BLACKMAIL customers into upgrading> software.Absolutely correct.  Each version of Quicken has its own unique License Agreement.  To suggest that a License Agreement for any given version of Quicken could legally change the terms of a prior License Agreement is absurd.  To think that it could have any influence on future License Agreements would suggest that you living in the Twilight Zone.
                                                                                                                                      "Just a subtle FYI, Google isn't new"1) You don't recognize sarcasm when you read it."To suggest that a License Agreement for any given version of Quicken could legally change the terms of a prior License Agreement is absurd. "2) That's the point!  God are you dense!3) You have a lot of time to waste on this4) Goodbye.
                                                                                                                                        > "Just a subtle FYI, Google isn't new"> 1) You don't recognize sarcasm when you read it.> "To suggest that a License Agreement for any given> version of Quicken could legally change the terms of> a prior License Agreement is absurd. "> 2) That's the point!  God are you dense!I get that a lot ever since they put me in the "old folks home," (get it, a little sarcasm) but at least I'm still capable of reading and comprehending what I read, unlike some people.By the way, since you chose to selectively respond to my last post I guess it's clear you have NO response to the other points. > 3) You have a lot of time to waste on this> 4) Goodbye.And goodbye to you.
                                                                                                                                          Well, I can understand your dissatisfaction with need to upgrade to get the features you use.  Unfortunately Intuit is no different from Microsoft Money or any other accounting software.  That's how they make their money. I have noticed   that with some software, you begin to have problems that were not there before.I had been using Money 2005 and I started getting messagesto remind me to upgrade.  That's when I went out and purchased Quicken.  I also didn't like the reports in Money.I hoping the reports will be better in Quicken.  I am stillsetting up my accounts.
                                                                                                                                            "By the way, since you chose to selectively respond to my last post I guess it's clear you have NO response to the other points. "Wrong (again).  But since I figured you would say something like, that I will venture this one final post.  I did not respond to "your other points" because you did not make any arguement against MY point that what the LA says is that Quicken may discontinue the download service (a reasonable thing since this internet thing might not work out), not DC the service for a particular version of the software (an unreasonble thing since it blakmails customers) except to say, "I think you have just provide sufficient evidence of you inability to comprehend the written word."I can read and comprehend perfectly well which my posts prove.  I just don't think you get the distinction.  <Edited by: Quicken Kathryn> Terms of use--removed personal attack.
                                                                                                                                              OK.  So, it appears that I need to buy a WHOLE NEW computer to run Quicken 2007? THANKS!  Great way to be backwards compatible.For those running multiple computers, on wireless, in a household, you just screwed us.  Of course the children have the newest WinXP computer for all the multimedia crap and homework.  There is a Win98 backup unit for the youngest to do homework.I have another older but robust Win98 unit to simply do bills and email, basic stuff.  I do NOT want this unit, and the financial data, damaged if the kids make a mistake.  Keep the data separate.  It is all I need....until now. Oh, by the way....it isn't broken yet either.  Real "green" way to act folks.If I am going to buy a new computer you know well I will try hard to use something else after this. Don't give me that jive that they sunset stuff too.  You sound like a 6 year old making excuses.As said by several other posters, I don't mind paying for upgrades that give me improvements...instead of deleting functionality.And from what comments I have seen, the Quicken 2007 with Vista is certainly "bleeding edge".
                                                                                                                                                Quote:" So Intuit sends me this letter.... and boy do I have questions / comments.: So I got a letter from..."This exactly matches my perspective and feelings so well that I could have written it myself. I haven't read the whole thread but you can still import transactions into brokerage accounts at least through Q2006. Officiall Intuit says it won't work but if you just do it anyway it still works. Your account won't show up on the list of accounts to import into so just select "<all accounts>". I too have written my own software to create QIF files to import my Ameritrade transactions. Several Ameritrade customers were having a problem and neither Ameritrade nor Intuit could/would solve it, so I was forced to write my own csv to qif file conversion application. I used to upgrade Quicken every year but now am afraid to upgrade. I assume that this backdoor import capability will eventually be shut. I believe it still works in Q2007 but am not sure. Intuit is so unresponsive to our complaints and suggestions that I think my best hope is for a more open competitive product to emerge. In the mean time, I will stick with Q2006 as long as possible.
                                                                                                                                                  So approximately this time last year I received the aforementioned letter from Quicken.  Interestingly, a friend of mine who continued to use his 2005 version of Quicken recently received the updated version of this same letter and called me for advice on the matter.  I figured if he needed input, maybe there are others who do as well.  If you're one of those people, I hope this finds you well.  If you're an unabashed Intuit apologist, you may want to skip the rest of this message.  Either way, I won't be replying to the thread.  Until maybe next year :)FWIW, I'll include an MD5 hash of the original message I post here in case the powers that be decide to edit it.  Though I find it much more likely they'll simply remove the post, I find it best to cover all bases.As I told my friend, upon receiving this fateful letter, I went through several days of frustration and angst before finally biting the bullet and installing Gnucash on my Mac in an effort to decisively rid my life of all Intuit products.  I will admit, it wasn't easy with 7 years of data.  However, in retrospect, I should really send Intuit a highly congratulatory letter of praise for their policies.  I, for one, could not be happier with my new accounting software and I owe them dearly for providing the catalyst for my migration.Since migrating to Gnucash, the benefits I've received have been both numerous and exceptional.  For example, I've had no transactions that inexplicably refused to download.  No bank-issued payments that mysteriously could not be alterer or deleted.  No off-by-one-penny stock transactions that took hours to discover and rectify.  No obtuse and arbitrary "categories" for equity-related transactions.  No corrupted data file requiring multiple, and infuriating, iterations of validate and super-validate.  And the list just goes on and on. Moreover, I'm now provided with an XML data file that, being both structured and text-based, will provide me unending access to my transactions and accounts.  Sure, it might take a bit of wrangling to massage it into the format I need should another migration be necessary in the future, but it sure beats proprietary binary formats.Life with Gnucash hasn't been all rosy, however.  There have been the occassional crash that loses the last few transactions I entered or modified.  I quickly learned to save my data early and often.  And reports are almost intolerably slow to generate using the Lisp-based reporting system.  Fortunately, given the double-entry nature of the software, I only need reports about once per year so it is hardly a show-stopper.  Nevertheless, despite these two flaws, in addition to the benefits I mentioned two paragraphs above, the comfort I receive knowing that 3 years hence I will not have another transition forced upon me provides me with great solace.I also find it interesting that the reviews on Amazon for both Quicken 2007 and 2008 are decidedly negative.  I believe 2008 has the slight edge currently at 3 stars vs 2-2.5 depending on the 2007 product with which you compare it.  I still have high hopes for the 08 software in matching the poor reviews of its predecessor.  Let's give it time.  To anyone considering continuing to play Intuit's game, I would suggest that the reviews are interesting reading material and product research.[ Continued in next post - do not include this line for MD5 ]
                                                                                                                                                    Lastly, it seems that INTU is trading slightly down (-2.5%) from this same time last year, with shares peaking at 33.10 over the course of 2007.  At this point, it does appear to be slightly ahead of the DJIA over the same period, but it would certainly be a stretch to couch this stock as an "outperform".  I'll refrain from my personal analysis of the company's performance, leaving that as an exercise to the reader.  However, I would posit to those that make policy that the way to greater market share is through innovation rather than extortion.  I think the historical performance of your stock versus the performance in recent years bears this out.If you've read this far, let me end by saying that Gnucash is not for everyone.  There's even a pretty good argument to be made that it isn't for most of you.  However, if you're tired of the tri-annual extortion and mandated, painful "upgrades" you might at least give Gnucash or other open-source accounting packages (K-money, etc) a fleeting glance.  Or not, it's entirely up to you_ I'm just relating my personal experience.  Best of luck to you all, irrespecive of your personal accounting decisions.MD5SUM:  381b37828aab5343ac9f59eb7487ad30
                                                                                                                                                      My state's Attorney General would be very interested if Intuit / Quicken removed a feature that is currently working - my ability to download from third party banks, etc.I suspect Intuit will come to their senses before 4/30/08 and retract the more onerous threats they are making.
                                                                                                                                                        They won't...they have retired (sunsetted) versions each year over the last three years without any legal repurcussions...not that there needs to be any.
                                                                                                                                                          OK, let's review the entire situation.  Some years ago, you voluntarily entered into a licensing agreement with Intuit.  In exchange for your payment of a licensing fee, you were granted a non-exclusive use license to use Quicken, subject to the terms of the "End User Licensing Agreement".  A specific point in this EULA was that Intuit reserved the right to "sunset" certain features of the software at a future date.  You agreed to all of these provisions (whether you actually read them is another matter, you agreed to them).  NOW, after several years of your enjoyment of the use of the software, it has come time for Intuit to invoke that sunset clause ...   And you (and others) are crying foul.    GUESS WHAT?  There's not an attorney in the country that will take your case.    Even those on this board who have claimed to be attorneys have never filed.  You have no legal complaint.  You got exactly what you paid for and what you agreed to.db
                                                                                                                                                            Man, there are some interesting posts here!  "Why don't you read your LA?" Come on, who reads the LA... get real.  If you have EVER read a LA, you don't have a life. I have two main points to make, and one question:1) I bought a piece of software that can IMPORT data from a bank.  2) I will no longer be a customer of Intuit if I can find a semi-decent replacement ONLY due to the fact that they are sunsetting a feature in 2005.My question: Is there any way to continue to get data files uploaded in my version?  If not, what other product does the forum recommend?Point 1)I don't care if I never get another stock price or other download from quicken.  They have every right to either charge me for those or make me upgrade to get them.   My problem is that BANKS give me OFX downloads for free - NOT QUICKEN!!!  I don't use quicken downloads - I use the banks!!  My software should be able to import these files, connect to the bank, and get the data, simple as that.  That is what I paid for, and it costs quicken NOTHING to maintain this feature.  Attempts to remove it are rightly considered evil.point 2/ Question:does anyone have a way to continue using downloads from banks in my software?  If not, does anyone have a recommendation for another product? and i'm not anonymous either - Doug from Houston
                                                                                                                                                              i My problem is that BANKS give me OFX downloads for free - NOT QUICKEN!!! I don't use quicken downloads - I use the banks!! The piece that you're missing, is that the banks also have a license agreement with Intuit to use Intuit's software ... the bank's didn't invent the interface and they don't own it.db
                                                                                                                                                                And...you can download the .qfx (or in Money's case the .ofx) files all you want._ There is no restriction on the downloading capabilities from your bank.What you are able to do with that downloaded info is your problem, however._ That's where Quicken or Money comes in._ So, you can use all the bank's downloads you want, but what do you plan to do with that data after you download it.As to other personal financial software...Google that phrase...there are other alternatives.
                                                                                                                                                                  This is where the free market comes in.  Can Intuit do this?  Probably yes (haven't read the EULA).  I, however, refuse to continue to support a company whose products have such a short shelf life, for the purposes I use them for.  I certainly understand a company wanting to push its customers to new versions, but this is absurd.  2005??  Not exactly ancient, even in the world of software.  I venture to say that MOST of my software that I use on a regular basis is still older than that, and I'm a bit of a tech geek.  Thank heavens all companies don't have such a money-grubbing policy.  Get your customers to upgrade by giving them something worthwhile in the upgrade, not by removing functionality from something they already own (yes, yes, I know under most EULAs you don't actually "own" the software).Goodbye Quicken, it's been a nice run.  I've already found my replacement (yes, as noted above, Google is your friend).
                                                                                                                                                                    I will say this again:Quicken Deluxe:_ $59.99"Shelf life": 3 yearsQuicken amortization: $20.00 per year.And that, to you, is an outrageous amount for what you get?_ In my opinion, it isn't._ You may have different standards.
                                                                                                                                                                      For giving money to a company that removes functionality to force an upgrade, yes, it is too much.I tend to get an irrational loyalty to one piece of software or another, and extol its virtues to others, which is what I'd done with Quicken (been using it for many years, with a free upgrade in there during the year or so that I used Quicken BillPay).  This latest development forced me to realize that my loyalty was to a bunch of computer code, and research whether Intuit's code was actually better than others.  Reading over several reviews on Quicken since 2005, it seems like the 3 subsequent releases have gotten less and less favorable reviews.  I've been researching other alternatives, and there are some amazing ones out there.  There's some with available API to use your own hooks, and others that are online (such as Yodlee, which is used by banks and even Money, so if your bank is already using it or if you're using Money, then you are already trusting their security).But, you and a couple of others here are big Quicken fans, and that's cool.  To each his own.
                                                                                                                                                                        I have Quicken 2005 and just received the "Death Threat" from Intuit to sunset the online service after Apr 30, 2008. I read the EULA regarding online services. It says:"Online Banking, Online Payment, Online Investment Account Download, Online Bill Pay, Online Trading, WebConnect, and any other online financial services available through the Internet and selected Intuit products ("Online Services") are provided by your financial institution or other third party, and not Intuit (excluding Quicken Bill Pay). "I believe when I purchased the Quicken 2005, I paid for the feature included in the product according to the License Agreement. Intuit has no right to take some features away that it did provide in the first place. Intuit must be updating the original program to BLOCK the online services features provided by other financial institutes.
                                                                                                                                                                          I have Quicken 2005 and just received the "Death Threat" from Intuit to sunset the online service after Apr 30, 2008. I read the EULA regarding online services. It says: "Online Banking, Online Payment, Online Investment Account Download, Online Bill Pay, Online Trading, WebConnect, and any other online financial services available through the Internet and selected Intuit products ("Online Services") are provided by your financial institution or other third party, and not Intuit (excluding Quicken Bill Pay). " The 2005 EULA also says:<STRONG>Online services, such as downloading financial data from yourparticipating bank, credit union, credit card, brokerage, mutual fund accounts, online bill pay, downloading stock/fund quotes and news may expirein accordance with Intuit's then effective product retirement/sunset policyavailable at </STRONG><A href="http://www.quicken.com/sunset"><STRONG><FONT color=#00659a>www.quicken.com/sunset</FONT></STRONG></A><STRONG&gt;. For the latest version of this Agreement go to </STRONG><A href="http://www.quicken.com/"><STRONG><FONT color=#00659a>www.quicken.com</FONT></STRONG></A><STRONG&gt; or such other site designated by Intuit.</STRONG>You're entitled to your opinion but you haven't demonstrated any legal basis for that opinion.
                                                                                                                                                                            No offense, but if your understanding is that I'm upset solely about the sunsetting, then you either did not bother to read my post, you have very poor reading comprehension, or you are an Intuit fanboy.  I'll give you the cliff notes version:1) Intuit is end-of-lifing a product AND removing one of its key features.  Please note that these are very distinct actions.  Eg, did Microsoft remove the TCP/IP stack when they EOL'ed Win98?2) Intuit has removed necessary features currently available in the 2004 version in every subsequent version.3) I never "threaten<ed> to switch".  I stated very simply that by putting money above their customers' needs, Intuit is going to hurt their user base (and IMO, their bottom line) in the long run.  In short, they have become part of the problem rather than the solution.That said, Intuit has now forced upon me the opportunity to look at other packages.  I may find that a later version of Quicken works for me, but it is not looking that way.  I still have unanswered questions about the capabilities of importing files in versions of Quicken >= 2005.  If anyone would like to answer those, I would certainly appreciated it.  Thanks...
                                                                                                                                                                              Your goodwill comment is superfluous and hyperbolic and I think you probably know it.  It doesn't remotely reflect anything I have written previouslyAs for buying a new version, I might, but my understanding is that it will not work for me.  Specifically, can any version of Quicken >= 2005 do the following:1) Import QIF files to cash AND investment accounts?2) Import QFX or OFX files to an arbitrary account?My understanding is that it will do neither of these.
                                                                                                                                                                                Intuit's been doing this non-support thing for more years than I can remember. Heck, they can't even adequately support the software they're still selling. I just got off chat with a Quicken support rep from God-knows-where who couldn't put a coherent sentence in English together if his/her life depended on it. He/she tried but after 45 minutes, we just quit. The language barrier was too great. Intuit was a lot easier to get along with when the program ran in DOS and fit on one floppy disk and anyone could load it onto any number of computers without paying for it. I think that's when they learned to hate us. You have to live with this now, but you can buy the software elsewhere - buy it on eBay for a song and you'll feel a whole lot better about this.
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Wow..youve inspired me to sue the people who made 8> track tapes...cause i have a player from back when> and now i cant find up to date tapes!I think you are missing the original poster's point.A better analogy would be an cassette tape player that stopped playing (already existing) cassettes when CDs came out - that is, a timebombed product.His complaint was not that Quicken would discontinue support, but that the product would stop working normally.
                                                                                                                                                                                    i agree with sysvr4. I have no problem with them dropping support, but to turn off a feature arbitrarily is too much.  Purchased software should not have time-bombs!I wonder if Intuit publishes a list of features that will stop working in Quicken 2007 in 3 years.After using TurboTax for many years, i switched to TaxCut when Intuit tried to force on-line activation on me.  I guess now i'll be looking for a Quicken replacement.Re QIF support, see http://web.intuit.com/personal/quicken/qif/qif_faqs.htmlbut it confirms that investment accts can't import QIF in Q-2005 or later.
                                                                                                                                                                                      I couldn't agree more with this complaint.  I bought 2004 online last year BECAUSE I have accounts with companies that only use QIF.  I have no problem buying new software.  I just expect the new software to provide the same services as the old.  I also expect software to continue functioning in the same way that I bought it.  This idea that aspects of software I bought will be altered bothers me.  I purchased this copy.  I understand that all companies need to worry about the bottom line BUT this is the equivalent of coming over to my house and wrecking my car so I'll be forced to buy a new one.  This may seem strange but the way most businesses get you to buy a new version of whatever they sell is to make the new version seem better.  Just a thought.  If I come up with a way to get 2007 to work with importing data, I will certainly let you know.
                                                                                                                                                                                        ?This is the equivalent of coming over to my house and wrecking my car so I'll be forced to buy a new one?That analogue fits, this is not about paying for the newer version I have no problem with that.  I already did but after discovering the limitation of 2007 I downgraded it.I have been a user of Quicken for 10 years, as software matures the user experience should be easier and less painful.My Quicken 2004 experience: 7 accounts support the Web Connector and only my 401(k) does not, with Quicken2004 I import 401(k) via QIF. If I switch to Quicken 2007 my month time spending in the program increases significantly.  I will have to manually add transaction to my 401(k) bye-monthly, that?s two transactions per mutual fund (10) ? 40 total transactions pre monthI have asked Quicken the following question:Why would/should I continue to be a customer? I'm a satisfied Quicken2004 customer, and you?re asking/forcing me to be unsatisfied Quicken 2007 customer. - I received the standard out of the box responseI will research other financial software programs as well as express my opinion (Consumer reports, Financial Software, cnet review, PC World ?)  If I choice to run unsupported software it?s my decision, but when Quicken removes features I have been using since I originally purchased their software (1995) is unacceptable.I work in support for a Large Software company, there a many ways to End-Of-Life software without using the Time-Bomb approach.    This a nothing more than STRONG arm tactics to force user to purchase your upgrade by cutting OFF the supply
                                                                                                                                                                                          I agree with sysvr4.  As a member of a Credit Union I am stuck ... caught between my financial institution being fiscally responsible to its members and Quickens draconian behavior. My Credit Union is only willing to pay for users of this download service .....  not the Quicken Fee  based on Credit Union assets or its total membership. Normally,  I would upgraded  the applications I use ... thus, Quicken has not benefited from my purchasing at least 3 upgrades. Only because of their lack of support for QIF .  Now if I am forced to find an alternative to Quicken I will do just that ... But I certainly not reward the company that has created this issue for me ... I probably will throw Turbo Tax over the wall also ... too bad, I have been using these products seemly forever. I have read about converter tools .. Anyone know if they work on Money?
                                                                                                                                                                                            I completely agree with you, Sysvr4.The pointless rantings of 'dbAnalyst', 'iiimaf', and 'yarbie1000' notwithstanding: it is one thing to discontinue support for older products, but to time-bomb the existing features (Internet download) that you paid for seems like fraud to me.  I'm no lawyer, but that's how I see it.  If somebody wants to start a class-action lawsuit against Intuit, I'll sign the petition.I really don't mind paying Intuit for their product, but I don't like this business model: rather than enticing users to upgrade based on compelling new features, they are simply punishing users and FORCING them to upgrade by removing the features that already exist.  Talk about giving the 'one finger salute' to loyal customers.Upgrading to new software is always a pain, and I would prefer to just keep my existing version of Quicken and pay a yearly download subscription fee -- maybe $10/year -- for the Internet features.  Intuit would make money and I don't get jerked-around.However, because they are (again) forcing me to upgrade, I really do have to examine other options.  What I <i>really</i> want is a Quicken-like program that works on Linux -- now that would be a COMPELLING feature of the type to which I was referring, which would entice me to upgrade.  However, for reasons that defy my comprehension, Intuit has repeatedly resisted all calls to port Quicken to the Linux platform -- a platform on which they would have virtually no competition (do you think Microsoft is going to release a Linux version of Money?).  Heck, they are already 90% there with the Mac OS X version of Quicken, but Intuit refuses to release a Linux version!  What incompetent yutz is calling the shots at Intuit?  I'm glad I'm not a stockholder.So, as I am locked into the Windows platform with both Quicken and MS Money, and as I now am being forced into buying new financial software for that platform, I might as well try MS Money.

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